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. >> he said america can't afford itself right now the way we're going. fiscal cliff talks today continue with geithner making the rounds on capitol hill. later this morning, third quarter gdp expected to be revised higher. economists expect gdp for july to september to be revised from 2% to 2.8%. that would be good news. this is still modest growth. everyone hopes that next year will be a better year than this one in terms of growth. you want to see more than 2.5% growth consistently. >> i will say amen to that. >>> if at first you don't succeed, coming up, south korea trying to launch another rocket. find out how it went this time. >>> and if you are leaving the house now, watch us any time on your desk top or your mobile phone, just go to cnn.com/tv. a , try running four. fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. but when i was in an accident... i was wo
jobless claims which have some sandy issues involved or the fiscal cliff talks? >> definitely the fiscal cliff. what you were talking about yesterday, boehner's comments really turned things around for the markets, all this sense of optimism all of a sudden. we saw the markets go from down triple digits for the dow up to triple digits. we haven't seen a swing like that since over a year ago. it's been october of 2011 was the last time it happened. it's definitely the fiscal cliff driving things. we heard commentary from lloyd blankfein, between that and the lead story -- one of the top stories on the front page of the "wall street journal" suggesting the president is flexible on the tax hikes, that sounds like a deal might get done. you see a gain of 50 or 60 points. gdp up 2.7% from 2%. there was concerning things when you dig into the numbers, it's all fiscal cliff all the time here, chuck. >> oh, hopefully, as you guys say, it will all -- people will rise above, right, becky? >> that's right. >> i know. i see the button. up next, we're taking a deep dive into the u.s. relationship wit
house is in fact open to having spending cuts as part of this discussion in the fiscal cliff talks. i think what is going on here is the white house heard the criticism and they are trying to breathe some new life into these talks. politico reported there was a phone call between the president and speaker boehner. they claim it was curt as in a short call that did not go well. jay carney just pushed back and said it was a 28-minute phone call. he said it was frank and direct. and it was good, it was positive. they believe, the white house does, that they are making progress. but i pressed jay carney. i said will spending cuts be included? and here is what he said. >> can you hold up that budget, look in the camera and say to your fellow democrats on capitol hill, vote for and include some of these spending cuts in this deal to avoid the fiscal cliff? because that's not what they are doing. should they include those? >> yes. and i know that democrats accept that there -- this has to be a balanced package that includes revenues and cuts and spending cuts. >> reporter: so news the white
correspondent mike viqueira. what can you make of this? fiscal cliff talks are they a nonstarter? >> i tell you, you listen to everything that is being said publicly. you see the president there. it's clear that the election, yes, is over. but the campaign goes on here. you know, i really believe that there two things that are clear from the white house to republicans. we are still in preliminary stages here, which is the good news, considering they are far apart. number two, the white house clearly feels it has the upper hand. it came with the $1.6 billion in new revenues and that's twice what the president was talking about before the election. republicans, obviously, rejecting it out of hand. we all heard by now republican leader in the senate mitch mcconnell laughed at it. there you see some of the provisions there. $600 billion in savings. some of it from medicare, another 50 billion in spending and new spending on infrastructure and stimulus spending. that's something that republicans aren't going to want to go to. the two sides are far apart. here we are on december 1st, the clock is tic
: as the country fast approaches the fiscal cliff, the two sides are talking past each other. democrats say they've laid down their marker hiking tax rates on wealthier americans. and it's up to republicans to propose specific spending cuts they want to entitlement programs. however, republicans say they've offered a concession putting revenue on the table. and they say it's now up to the president and his fellow democrats to feel some pain and propose cuts in medicare and medicaid. confu confusing? we asked senate majority leader harry reid. where's the disconnect? >> i don't understand his brain. so you should ask him, okay. >> from capitol hill to the white house, democrats say the major hurdle remains, the tax issue, whether republicans will agree not just to revenue but to raising tax rates. republicans as you will not be surprised have made clear so far that is a no-go. so what's next? well, a top republican aide told me they look forward to hearing from the white house. a top democratic aide saying, our door is open. read that, wolf, as a standstill. >> they've waited a few weeks before a
reporters that he is optimistic about the overall fiscal cliff talks, martha. martha: we'll see. the way they speak publicly there doesn't seem to be a lot of budging on either side. we know there were pretty high profile white house meetings, but those conversations, not happening publicly right now, but are they going on behind closed doors do we think? >> reporter: we know president obama and speaker john boehner had a phone conversation last night. a source familiar with the call said it lasted more than 15 minutes. that's critical because think deal will need to be carried by the two of them, bottom line democratic leaders here on the hill will go along with the president's plan, speaker boehner needs to be able to sell it in the house, martha. martha: there was a report that there was a curt, tense conversation. now we are learning that it went on as you said, mike for 15 minutes and the men had quite a bit to talk about. we'll see where it goes. thank you, mike. >> reporter: thank you, martha. bill: the state of arizona just announcing it will not create a state insurance exchange
geithner is up on capitol hill to lead negotiations on the fiscal cliff talks. >> you're not going to grow the economy if you raise taxes on the top two rates. that's not the right approach. >>> string of nasty storms barreling into the west coast. powerful winds have started knocking out power. >> just need to get to the other side of town. i don't have a choice. >> picked a bad day to do it? >> yeah. >> u.s. embassy in cairo is closed. the entrance is blocked by protesters as clashes erupt nearby. >> zebra and s hechlt tland pony ran wild through the streets of new york city. they apparently escaped from a petting zoo. >>> nypd says actress lindsay lohan has been raefed and charged with assault. >> three, two, one. >> only nbc would make a television event out of plugging something in. >> all that -- >> oh, humphries and rondo get into it. officials trying to get control here. >> don't tell me what i think. when i said i didn't have a problem, i don't have a problem. got it? >> and all that matters. >> president obama plans to play host to his old political rival, mitt romney. >> on "cbs
at the white house at an interesting time. not only are the fiscal cliff talks going on, which mitt romney might have some input on that, but suzanne, as you well know, what is also happening right now, they are getting prepared for the inauguration just outside the grounds of the white house. they're putting up the bleachers for what's happening on january 21st. probably a bittersweet moment for mitt romney as well on that front. >> yeah. that's probably true. let us know what they're serve and if there's anything that comes out of their discussions today. thanks, jim. good to see you, as always. >>> palestinians, they want their own state, of course, and a vote by the u.n. today could actually put them one step closer to getting it. there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and... is concentrated, so you could use less gel. and with androgel 1.62%, you can save on your monthly prescription. [ male announc
reading other stuff. this is wicked boring. >> i bet the president will talk to him about the fiscal cliff and they'll talk about entitlement reform and maybe tax reform. but the one thing i don't think the president will do because the president is a gentleman, you know, what was up with the 47% and gifts? i gave gifts to people? he's not going to go there with mitt romney. one, as i said because he's gentleman, but two, he doesn't have to because mitt romney is coming there not as president of the united states, but guest of. and that's the best -- >> i now have a solid preduction. he will not once say the word yo. >> that was my own -- >> your artistic representation. >> richard, what i think, the only thing i'd find great about it is watching obama, the actor. as we just saw, oh, i thought he did a terrific job at the olympics, i loved watching that stream of i'm not sure what you call it, but it's acting. it's not coming from the heart. >> he does it very sincerely and look, we may never know what happens inside those quiet rooms that they're going to be having their meeting in, but h
with each leader this morning to talk about the fiscal cliff or slope or curve. but whatever you call it, politico's front page headline reads, fiscal cliff deal emerging. it hashes out the flame woframe agreement including $400 billion in cuts to entitlements. but how close are they really? depends on who you ask. >> what's going on between the decision makers is little to nothing. >> you can actually now see what the contours of the deal look like. >> i'm optimistic that we can continue to work together to overt this crisis and sooner rather than later. >> we will not negotiate the end of medicare. i don't know what it is with these republicans. >> it's safer if you're on the progressive end of the political spectrum to go over the fiscal cliff than it is to agree to some of the things they're talking about. >> ruth, where do you stand, deal or no deal? >> not who deal, but who are more pessimistic. the clock is really ticking. about ten legislative days left in the year. outlines are there but the willingness to do it and the ability to get it done in time, i'm more disappointed than
the scenes of the talks to avoid the fiscal cliff. it seems the framework for a deal actually might be taking shape. if so, what will it look like? david drucker has been nosing around a little bit. the associate politics editor at "roll call." when you hear senators and speaker of the house come out and talk it doesn't sound like they're all that close, david. are you optimistic? >> well i'm sort of on the fence here, jon. whenever you hear members of congress talk about any kind of fiscal cliff deal you have to approach it with a sort of believe everything and believe nothing attitude. i think that everybody wants to avoid having taxes go up for all americans as of january 1st but everybody has a price for that. and it, to me, it's about whether or not both sides are looking for a win-win deal, meaning, my opponent wins and i win. or whether both sides or one of the sides are looking for a deal where only i win and you lose and on top of all of that then we have to look at what do they want to include in any sort of deal? are we going to address entitlement reform? are we going to cut spend
, it is a friday morning and this is not a game. words from john bain other as we get react on fiscal cliff talks that exploded in the open. saying that it reads like a democratic wish-list and could plunge the economy back into recession. oh joy. welcome here. i'm bill hemmer. live in "america's newsroom.". martha: good morning, bill. bill: we'll find the silver lining in this, aren't we? martha: we are. bill: that is our quest. martha: i'm martha maccallum. here are the basics when they put forth through tim geithner yesterday from the president. 1.6 trillion in new taxes. that is the opening part of the deal. 50 billion in new stimulus spending. we already had a lot of backlash in stimulus in previous packages. this is interesting element here. new executive power to raise the debt limit. that is what caused so many of these discussions because they bump up against the debt limit and not be able to go back this. there is executive power plea to be able to do that without going back to confess. republicans are saying where is the balance? where is the spending cut side of the equation. the pres
tryinging to kick start fiscal cliff talks. just 33 days. congress breaks for the holidays in 15 days. >> treasury secretary tim geithner is going to try to get the talks moving today. he'll meet with congressional leaders on capitol hill. let's go to dan lothian live in washington for us. dan, tell us should americans be hopeful something will be done in 15 days? that's before congress goes on vacation. >> let's remind a little bit. it was a week ago when president obama met with congressional leaders before he went overseas. there was a sense of optimism that they could get something done. now it appear it is two sides are still very far apart. so that's why you see the president pushing this tax extension for middle class americans. the president believing this is not necessarily the answer, the comprehensive answer. it's part of the solution. he's been meeting with small business owners at the white house. with big-time ceos as well. yesterday had middle class americans who expressed how they would be impacted by taxes going up to the tune of $2200 if the middle class tax extensio
-tablet free trial. >>> let me finish tonight with this. this fiscal cliff we talk about, i'm afraid, is no bungy jump. what doesn't go down doesn't by necessity go back up. this is why i'm warmed that the president is working here for an early deal, one before christmas. this country needs to get back on its feet economically. we went under financial chaos under work. president obama came in to right things. he's been doing it, gradually getting us to forget how bad things were. they don't blame
-888-xarelto or visit goxarelto.com. >>> let me finish tonight with this. this fiscal cliff we talk about, i'm afraid is no bungee jump. what goes down doesn't by necessity come back up. this is why i've warned to know the president is working here for an early deal, one before christmas. this country needs to get back on its feet economically. we went through financial chaos under w. president obama came in to right things. he's been doing it, gradually getting us to forget how bad things were. fortunately for him the voters remember how bad they were. that's one reason they don't blame obama for the weak economy, they still blame w. this isn't about right or wrong. it's about being smart and not putting the country a
that he thinks we should go over the fiscal cliff. everyone i talked to in washington wants to avoid going over the fiscal cliff. and most importantly, they don't want to get the blame for it. that's why republicans will probably be motivate d to negotiate with the white house. it might be christmas eve, but in the end, that's what's going to bring them to the table. >> he said after a week or two, there would be the negotiations. he said instead of a cliff, it was like a curb. david, if americans, though, are going to blame the gop more so than the president, how much leverage does that give the president as negotiations are underway? >> i think it gives him substantial leverage right now. that's why you see him not revealing all his cards saying you have to come to us. speaker ba speaker boehner has to start with this. e he would look his speakership. and said sure, mr. president, we lost the election. this has to be his starting position. it's only december 2nd. we have a month, i think, lindsey graham saying we're going to go over the cliff. i don't buy that either. we have a motto get
obama and somehow would there will be a role maybe in these talks about the fiscal cliff. we don't know a lot about what they talked about. the meeting was about an hour long. they had white turkey chili and southwestern chicken salad. but molly, this is the first time they've seen each other since the election. what do you say beyond congratulations, mr. president? >> goodness knows. it's pretty telling that the most newsworthy item out of that meeting was the lunch menu. the readout we got from the white house was very sort of boilerplate. we do know what didn't happen, unless there's something they're not telling us. romney was not offered a job or a post in the administration, as some had speculated might happen as sort of a conciliatory gesture. who knows if he would have taken that or wanted something like that. it was sort of very tepid, the language that we got, that they would work together in the future if opportunities arose on issues they were both interested in, and they discussed american leadership in the world, which is about the closest you can come to saying absolutely
'll head to the hill to talk to members from both sides about the fiscal cliff clash. plus, sharp divisions at the united nations. the world defies the u.s. in a historic vote for palestinians. and huge crowds are gathering in tahrir square after egypt approved a controversial new draft constitution. it's a move that's likely to inflame the political crisis there. we're live in cairo with what it all means for the region. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule. he is in pennsylvania at the toy factory talking fiscal cliff. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. [ emily jo ] derrell comes into starbucks with his wife, danielle, almost every weekend. derrell hasn't been able to visit his mom back east in a long time. [ shirley ] things are sometimes a little tight around the house. i wasn't able to go to the wedding. [ emily jo ] since derrell couldn't get home, we decided to bring home to him and then just gave him a little bit of help finding his way. ♪ [ laughs ] [ applause ] i love you. i love you, too. side by side so you get the same coverage, often for less. that
into this morning as we talk about the fiscal cliff. erskine bowles says he thinks democrats and republicans are serious about getting a deal done, but when you hear congressman cole walking back statements, do you think that's true? >> cole doesn't want to be a political target of the right. so he can easily say i really didn't mean that prks and to ge of the news. and probably trying to set the table for other guys. which is a signal that the right wing is still very stuck in con kreetd as you said earlier. they don't want to move. they are denying election results. but there is real ominous things i think that are starting to surface here. any talk of a mortgage deduction change would be horrendous in my opinion and it would fly in the face of everything barack obama and joe biden ran on in protecting middle class. they have to be crystal clear that that is off the table. the housing crisis started the last recession. if they go after mortgage deductions, if they put that on the table even for high end homes, that will change sales, it will reduce prices on homes, it will slow constructio
an out-of-control budget deficit. we're talking about the fiscal cliff. he said -- let's see. interest rates he was talking about are lower than they've been in our living memory. in fact, if there was ever a time for america to borrow more to put people back to work, rebuilding our schools and crumbling infrastructure, it is now. robert reich. see, i would listen to the guys that were there then in the clinton administration. we're asking you what you think why? because -- >> they're the ones who tanked the economy. >> stephanie: okay. lenny in wisconsin. your eaten "the stephanie miller show." >> caller: hi. how you doing, steph? >> stephanie: good. go ahead. >> caller: i have a few things to say. i hope you don't cut me off. >> stephanie: all right. >> caller: i'm a 62-year-old gay man who is on disability and i've got my -- because of scott walker, all of my healthcare removed. all of my food stamps removed. i'm making $700 a month. i have $500 a month in prescriptions which of course, i can't a
's solve this. >>> tomorrow on "outfront" we'll have democrats and republicans on to talk about the fiscal cliff. including peter defazo who says we should just go over the cliff. "piers morgan tonight" is next. yep. the longer you stay with us, the more you save. and when you switch from another company to us, we even reward you for the time you spent there. genius. yeah, genius. you guys must have your own loyalty program, right? well, we have something. show her, tom. huh? you should see november! oh, yeah? giving you more. now that's progressive. call or click today. but i'm also on a lot of medications that dry my mouth out. i just drank tons of water all the time. it was never enough. i wasn't sure i was going to be able to continue singing. i saw my dentist and he suggested biotene. it feels refreshing. my mouth felt more lubricated. i use the biotene rinse twice a day and then i use the spray throughout the day. it actually saved my career in a way. because biotene really did make a difference. [ female announcer ] nature valley granola bars, rich dark chocolate, toasted oats. perf
and democrats onto talk about the fiscal cliff. it is going to be an interesting show with some fireworks. ac 360 starts now. wolf blitzer is in for anderson cooper. oh no, not a migraine now. try this... bayer? this isn't just a headache. trust me, this is new bayer migraine. [ male announcer ] it's the power of aspirin plus more in a triple action formula to relieve your tough migraines. new bayer migraine formula. bp has paid overthe people of bp twenty-threeitment to the gulf. billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. a new way to save on your prescriptions. it's the aarp medicarerx saver plus plan from unitedhealthcare. with this plan, you can get copays as low as a dollar through a preferred network pharmacy like walgreens -- where you'll find 8,000 convenient
with business leaders again today to talk about the consequences of going over the fiscal cliff. he's also claiming to call on congressional leaders to make sure we raise the debt ceiling without contention. the white house making the case that extending the bush tax cuts for the middle class is directly connected to the health of our businesses. companies need to know consumers will be able to spend and in his first post-election interview president obama again rejected the house republican counteroffer that is on the table. >> unfortunately the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. we're going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> let's hope he sticks to it. >> g.o.p. leaders aren't only dealing with the president and congressional democrats they're dealing with a split within their own ranks. more conservative republicans don't want party leaders to compromise anymore than they think they already have. even though the republican plan offers u
on, that's the fiscal cliff. i want to have you on because i trust in you. thank you, kent conrad. >>> coming up, hot new evidence the republicans have learned nada, nothing, from the election they just lost. yesterday you saw the all-white republican chairmanships in the house of representatives. today's story, the marquee name for the republican party next year ken, cuccinelli, a real winger. wait until you catch his decisions on all kinds of issues affecting women, immigrants, everybody. >>> welcome back to "hardball." it appears republicans have learned few, if any, lessons from the election they just had. and as we said last night, a party that lost overwhelmingly among women, latinos, and african-americans will have house chairmen that all look like those guys. now, the chief strategist of romney's campaign, stu stevens, is describing why he lost. he wrote in "the washington post" today, quote, there was a time not so long ago when the problems of the democratic party revolved around being too liberal and too dependent on minorities. obama turned those problems into advantag
. >> this week on "inside washington," heading towards the fiscal cliff. who is going to blink first? >> nobody can win everything. the republicans will have to give on revenue, democrats will have to give on entitlement reform. >> susan rice still in the bull's-eye. >> the concerns i have are greater today than before. >> lunch at the white house whitemitt. who will dare to break the no tax hike pledge? >> republicans who voted against the no tax hike pledged damage the brand for everyone else. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> thomas jefferson said the purpose of government is to enable the people of the nation to live in safety and happiness. jefferson said americans would be ok if they could keep the government from wasting their labors under the pretense of taking care of them. what is your government doing for you today? is it preparing to drive itself over a cliff like thelma and louise? >> despite the claim that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. >> if congress does nothing, every
to have you back, senator, to talk about something i know you're good on, that's the fiscal cliff. i want to have you on because i trust in you. thank you, kent conrad. >>> coming up, hot new evidence the republicans have learned nada, nothing, from the election they just lost. yesterday you saw the all-white republican chairmanships in the house of representatives. today's story, the marquee name for the republican party next year ken cuccinelli, a real winger. . wait until you catch his decisions on all kinds of issues affecting women, immigrants, everybody. this is the full monty of the right wing coming up in this election for governor of virginia. we'll be right back. right wing coming up in this victor! victor! i got your campbell's chunky soup. mom? who's mom? i'm the giants mascot. the giants don't have a mascot! ohhh! eat up! new jammin jerk chicken soup has tasty pieces of chicken with rice and beans. hmmm. for giant hunger! thanks mom! see ya! whoaa...oops! right wing coming up in this i'. grandma? hi sweetie! she operates the head. [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it
's top republican laughing out loud at the white house proposal to avert the fiscal cliff. >> i don't know much about the government. is that a good sign if they make a proposal? >> when you do that to me, i know you're not taking me seriously, right? >> sometimes getting really stupid offers, also not polite. >>> plus, an update on the condition of the former president george h.w. bush. he had a health scare in houston yesterday. we're going to tell you how he's doing this morning. >>> but first let's get to the news live at 5:30 here at 30 rock in new york city. this morning, president obama departs to pennsylvania where he will continue his campaign sales pitch on how to solve the country's fiscal challenges. yesterday treasury secretary tim geithner met with republicans to unveil the white house's budget proposal which includes $1.6 trillion in new tax revenue over ten years as well as $50 billion in additional stimulus spending. with limited details on spending cuts, the gop's reaction, less than encouraging. senator mitch mcconnell reportedly burst into laughter while geithner
later this hour, i want to talk about what is going on actually with the fiscal cliff. or the fiscal curve or molehill, depending how you characterize this thing. seem likes we're going to hear bad news, bad news, bad news until we hear good news which is to say everybody's in their corners but it sounds like, according to your libelist publication, there may be -- >> i'm not an attorney. >> i just play one on tv. there may be the outlines of a real deal with actual numbers. >> yeah, sort of. but we knew that. you know, i think what's going on, and ryan having covered shoulder to shoulder this wonderful show we call congress, the more pessimistic and the more you see the top of john boehner's head in the press conference, and you try to strain to hear his grumbling, the more of a sense you get they're moving closer. nastier the stuff gets, the closer you know you are to a resolution. >> don't take a victory lap, we need serious leadership from the white house would bear out glenn's point. >> right. when a fish show starts, the crowd -- >> wow! i hope nobody actually catches that refe
on how to avoid the fiscal cliff. the president plans to deliver remarks and answer questions during a meeting of a business roundtable. critics say the president will call on business leaders to press lawmakers about raising the debt ceiling. while that is happening we expect to hear from house speaker john boehner any moment right now on the hill for the latest on what's happening on fiscal matters. martha? martha: meanwhile, there are new evacuations that have been ordered in a community where a train carrying toxic chemicals derailed nearly a week ago. 100 families told they have to leave their homes in new jersey near philadelphia. they have to play it safe until the last of the hazard does gas is removed. >> what we'll do we'll pump liquid in that dissolves the vinyl chloride. we'll pump that liquid back out into the highway truck. we have a derailment of hazardous of materials over and in a waterway and a community adjacent to it, right next to it. martha: the rail line is paying for hotel rooms and other expenses for 200 people not able to go home. the families as you can ima
of u.s. homeowners could get a financial hit if the fiscal cliff negotiations tweak a popular tax break. if the negotiators do that, the mortgage interest deduction could be on the table at those talks. christine romans has more now. >> reporter: don, the middle class's most cherished tax break could be in the cross hairs of negotiations. government spending on this will reach $100 billion by 2014 making it the third largest tax break on the books. who does it help? 41 million people. the most recent irs data shows 41 million people claimed this deduction on their 2010 tax returns. the tax return policy center says it tends to benefit upper middle class families the most. for those with annual incomes of less than $40,000, their savings about $91. or $5,500. this benefits people most on both coasts and cities like chicago with higher property prices. watching the fiscal cliff negotiations closely for what could happen next to the tax goody next year. don? >> christine, thank you very much. >>> okay. the fiscal cliff, you have heard vague warnings. let's get specific about it. your child
was blamed. >> trust me, you talk to republicans, no matter how this shakes off, if we go over the fiscal cliff, we are to blame. i hear that over and over. something to what tom said, it's an amazing notion that a just-elected democrat president is necessary to make permanent the bush tax cuts. they were tax rate cuts across the board. the idea that most of them could be made permanent -- bush couldn't have gotten that done in 2004 after being re-elected. i do think that republicans should take a victory lap in that regard. >> it is really politically smart to do this. you know, but it's also particularly smart to cut the knees out from under grover norquist. who is he? he's an unelected -- >> it's not him. >> he represents something that's real. he represents something that's real. >> i think everybody recognizes to get these numbers to work you have to have revenue increases. the question is, do you need tax rate increases or not? i think it's very tough to make the math work. >> honestly, i think -- and i like grover, but there is a big -- but there's a big, big difference between not
% now and therefore avoid the fiscal cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> let's allow higher rates to go up for the top 2%, that includes all of you, yes. but not in any way that's going to affect your spending, your lifestyles, or the economy in any significant way. let's make sure that 98% of americans don't see it -- a single dime in tax
, the president offered a tough fiscal cliff proposal to congress, one that aides to john boehner say -- wait for it -- he's already rejected. of course he has. joining me to talk about all things politics, "new york times" columnist frank bruni and ross doufit. how many seconds was it, do you think, gentlemen, let me start with you, frank, before john boehner rejected out of hand president obama's attempt to try and do a fiscal cliff deal? >> with $1.6 trillion in new taxes, i think probably half a second. >> when you see the apparent attempt at a bipartisan lunch going on today between obama and romney, it was all very sweet and everything, the reality is the picture was about as uncomfortable as the relationship is between the two sides, and again, frank, how do we get to a better place in washington? how do we get these guys to realize, let me throw this at you. i interviewed mike tyson an hour ago. fantastic interview in many ways. what i found really fascinating and relevant to this, he talks about when he goes back to the streets he grew up in in new york, what real people care about.
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